Be the Brave Ones
Helping you live brave, build community, and pass on courageous faith to the girls around you, we are the Be the Brave Ones Podcast! We have meaningful conversations on the podcast that inspire you to live out your faith with courage and encourage you to have meaningful conversations of your own with the girls in your life! We are the official podcast of Brave Girls Gather. Pull up a seat and join us at our table of brave conversation! Learn more about Brave Girls Gather at www.bravegirlsgather.com
Be the Brave Ones
Seen, Known, Loved: Grace & Redemption - An Inspiring Conversation w/ Kaylee Shae Harvey
We’re back for Episode 3! Delaney takes a short break from the adventures of motherhood to join Mandie for a lively and inspiring conversation with college-age pastor Kaylee Shea Harvey.
Kaylee shares her journey to faith, her commitment to biblical justice, and her role in church leadership. They chat about the significance of community, the joy of personal Bible study, and the transformative power of understanding God's love and justice through Scripture.
The heart of the episode explores John 8:1-11, the powerful story of the woman caught in adultery’s encounter with Jesus! They dig into the contrasting reactions of the onlookers and Pharisees, shining a spotlight on Jesus's incredible mercy and His radical approach to redemption.
The conversation underscores the importance of understanding Scripture to discern God's Truth from cultural norms. Mandie, Delaney, and Kaylee encourage listeners to engage with the Bible together, allowing its transformative power to reshape their lives.
Tune in for a mix of heartfelt stories, spiritual insights, and inspiring conversation that will brighten your day & deepen your faith!
Connect with Kaylee Shae Harvey through her website on IG
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The world looks at revenge and Jesus looks at redemption, and so the world would be very much an eye for an eye, or make them pay, where Jesus would be looking at them. It's like how do we make them better Helping?
Speaker 2:you live brave, build community and pass on courageous faith to the girls around you.
Speaker 3:This is Be the Brave Ones podcast hey everybody, it is Mandy here and I'm here with Delaney today. What's?
Speaker 2:up Delaney. Hey guys, it feels so good to be back. It's been a long time, but I'm happy to be here, so awesome to see your face on the other side of that screen, Delaney.
Speaker 3:So you know, Delaney, that we came out of the Summer of Joy series not too long ago, and so I'm just curious if you would share with our listeners what was the highlight of your summer.
Speaker 2:Oh man, okay Well, I had a baby first of all.
Speaker 1:And so.
Speaker 2:I got many newborn snuggles and many toddler giggles as well. It's been really fun to just watch my oldest, who is only 17 months now, just become a big brother and roll with the punches of all things that that entails. So we've stayed inside a lot because it's just brutally hot here in Florida during the summer. So, yes, a lot of toy dinosaurs and giggles have been the highlight of my summer.
Speaker 3:Well, hopefully you're coming out soon, or you're coming out at a good time, because fall is springing. Can I say that, like it's on the way, I've been feeling like the cooler breezes I did feel a cool breeze recently, but it's just not as hot, you know. So hopefully you guys will get some good outdoor time sometime soon. But we have been in this series called See Known Loved, which you helped put together, delaney. But we have been in this series called See Known Loved, which you helped put together, delaney, and we're talking about what it means for God to see us like, for us to grasp better, to get a good understanding of how he sees us, especially when we feel rejected or misunderstood or alone. So we've been examining these stories of women in the Bible who had these incredible encounters with Jesus and we're just looking at it, of women in the Bible who had these incredible encounters with Jesus, and we're just looking at it and going, okay, what was the woman feeling? What was Jesus feeling? What were the onlookers experiencing? What was Jesus conveying? And so we're going to scripture for that.
Speaker 3:But we're also going to have another incredible guest on. We're going to invite her in soon and welcome her to the show. Her name is Kaylee Shea Harvey and we're so excited for that. We're going to hear her story a little bit and have her share some things, and then we're going to roundtable scripture together Super looking forward to that. But first we've been kind of like taking Psalm 139 as a lens of which we can look through and see the rest of the story that we are going to be looking at at the end of the episode, and so last week we read verses seven through 12. And this week we're going to take a look at verses 13 through 16. So, delaney, will you go ahead and read those now?
Speaker 2:Yes, 13 through 16. You made all the delicate inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex. Your workmanship is marvelous. How well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out, before a single day had passed.
Speaker 3:I think this is my favorite part of the whole chapter. Like I can get teary, like hearing you read those words. But what stood out to you, Delaney, when you looked at these verses?
Speaker 2:I see that we serve a God who is not too big for the small, like he knows every day. He was written every single day of our life times. That multiply that by how many people?
Speaker 2:can say this times how many years that is, and yet he sees the tiny, tiny babies in the womb, like he's so involved in it all, and I think that's a good lens for me. My day seems very small sometimes and I seem very small sometimes and it's good to know that god, who is maker of all, creator of all, who is holy and perfect and in the heavens on his throne, is still involved in the very, very small things. So that's encouraging to me. It also just shows God's compassion for the small and the unseen and the weak at heart as well.
Speaker 3:Yes, as a mom of two littles at home, you can definitely go through those days, weeks, months of feeling unseen and he can take those small moments and give you big moments. It's just like you and him see it. He's so like that that he meets us exactly where we are and we can still experience God in a big way. It just doesn't have to be where everybody else gets to see it too. But it becomes part of your story, part of your testimony.
Speaker 3:I really loved in my version in verse 14,. It says wonderful are your works. My soul knows it very well and for me that's a reminder to quiet my thoughts in my mind and to not look with physical eyes at what I can see. But if I will slow down and even meditate on the verses in this whole chapter, my soul is going to know the truth because my soul is what knows it. It's my mind or my flesh or what I can see with my physical eyes that I forget or that I don't know all these things about God. And then I also loved in verse 16, when it says your eyes formed me. Your eyes saw my unformed substance.
Speaker 3:In your book were written Every one of them, the days that were formed for me when, as yet, there were none of them. And I don't know. First of all, I just love the ESV because it's like poetry, especially in the Psalms, but that he did like before the day was even lived, like what you were saying. He knew, he knew the story and that is such confidence for me. He knew the path I was going to go on. He knew the people I was going to encounter. He knew the people who were going to reject me, misunderstand me. He knew the moments I was going to feel alone, and so when I can go, I'm not here without God knowing.
Speaker 2:That just gives me confidence to keep going and where I am going, god already knows, and we'll be there.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's right. So we have an awesome guest for you guys today. We're so excited to introduce her to you. Her name is Kaylee Shea Harvey and she is a writer and a speaker and a college age pastor, a biblical justice educator, who is madly in love with Jesus. On the outside of the hours of five to nine, you can find her dodging the sun in Florida, going on random adventures with her husband, enjoying a good meal and obsessing over the Spice Girls. We're gonna have to ask her more about that. But ultimately, Kaylee's desire is to love God and love people while promoting gospel-centered unity. Hey, Kaylee, we're so glad you're here.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello. Thank you so much for having me All right.
Speaker 3:So let us in on the Spice Girl obsession. We gotta know more about that.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, yes, I love the Spice Girls with all my heart. I don't remember a time that I didn't love the Spice Girls. My routine when I was younger was to come home from preschool and love the Spice Girls. My routine when I was younger was to come home from preschool and the Spice Girls movie Spice World was already in the VHS and I just had to press play and I would watch it every day after preschool and then would rewind it, so it was ready for the next day, and so, I don't know, I love them so much that I went to London by myself in 2019.
Speaker 1:don't know. I love them so much that I went to London by myself in 2019. They had a European reunion tour, but it was only in the UK and I was like not on my watch, and so I had Spice Girl tickets before I had a passport. That's like how serious this is.
Speaker 3:Wow, oh my goodness, and that was your first trip to the UK. Yeah, that was my first time out of the country, as you said before passport. Yeah, yeah, that's some serious Spice girl dedication. I also want to ask you about, like, how do you dodge the Florida sun? Does that mean you get out of Florida?
Speaker 1:No, I'm here, I am very present here. I'm actually allergic to the sun. It like causes me to break out in these like horrible, horrible rashes, like all over my arms, on my face sometimes, and so it's a lot of sunscreen, a lot of like SPF shirts and hats and I look like a goober outside but are you ever like Lord?
Speaker 3:why? Why are we here? Like I'm allergic to the sun and I'm in Florida, like that's, like a symbol of Florida is a sun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think God's funny, and so I think it's funny, I think it's bearable, it's doable. I live in St Petersburg, which is like the sunshine city, so it is like the ultimate ironic joke on me that the Lord would bring me here and settle me here. And it's the cross I have to bear. But I love it, I love the beach, I love being outside. It's the worst.
Speaker 2:It's the worst problem I have, because I actually love it, so I just have sunscreen everywhere.
Speaker 1:It's in my Jeep, it is in my home, it's at my friends' homes, like I just have sunscreen everywhere and so I make it work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, we're glad that you are in the sunshine state and just across the bay in St Petersburg. Well, we have been in this series. Well, we just got out of a series called Summer of Joy, and so is there like a highlight from your summer, like something that you look back on the summer and you're like man this was awesome.
Speaker 1:I would say that I just recently got home from a trip to Phoenix, which is also super hot and super sunny. But it was one of my friend's birthday and I got to go and be with her on her birthday and honor her Cause we do have a long distance friendship, and so it was nice to be able to hop on a plane and go celebrate her in person.
Speaker 3:I love that my son, who's 15, just went to Oklahoma city to celebrate his childhood besties 16th birthday and it was over a hundred degrees. Like he's looking up. He looks up the weather to pack and he's like expecting he's going to have to pack like some, you know, cold weather clothes and he's like what's going on.
Speaker 1:It's everywhere. It was like 118 in Phoenix and it was like dry. So here in Florida we're like, oh a breeze, thank goodness. But in Phoenix it's like an oven. It's like when you open the oven and it's just like yeah, he said Oklahoma is, yeah, like you're toasting in the sun.
Speaker 3:All right. So we've been in this series called See no Loved, and we're looking at these stories of women and having these incredible encounters with Jesus, and so I would wonder if you would tell us a little bit about your story. How did you meet Jesus? And just tell us a little bit more about who Kaylee Shea is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I met Jesus a little bit later in my life. I was a senior in college. It actually was this past weekend. It was the eighth year that I've been following Jesus. I was on a track and field team. I ran track and field in college and I had a teammate who, if I'm very honest, her and I did not get along. I would borderline, probably say that we hated each other. Well, maybe I hated her. She loved Jesus. I did not at the time, so maybe I just didn't like her and but she definitely did not enjoy me. And one random day we were in the locker room.
Speaker 1:It was just her and I, which was rare Normally the locker room is a very busy hub for athletes and it was just her and I. We had both just experienced a loss in our families Same day. Funerals were the same day, they had passed the same day and we came back to practice the same day and again because God has jokes our lockers were right next to each other. Yeah, and so we came back to all of these sticky notes of our teammates, just like showering us with love, and she's she's crying like reading them. And I'm sitting on the couch like I'm uncomfortable and she looks up at me, eyes full of tears, and goes Kaylee, will you go to church with me on Sunday? Wow, and I was like you're crying and I can't say no, because that would be horrible.
Speaker 1:I'm still like a decent human being, even though I didn't have Jesus at the time.
Speaker 1:And so I was like sure. And so we went and come to find out that the college age pastor, his wife, was there, who was my brother's middle school teacher, and when we were in school we're four years apart I would walk to his classroom and pick him up and would always be like hey, mrs Quadi, like that was my greeting every time and we would say hi. And so when I saw her, I was like, hey, this is quality, like it was just this familiar routine. And that was the day that I gave my life to Jesus, and I've always said that Jesus will give you something familiar to show that he's there and show that he is present and that he's moving in this whole thing. And so that is how I gave my life to Jesus, because a teammate who did not enjoy me was obedient and hearing God's voice and like, hey, you need to invite this girl to church, she needs this. And so I, I thank her, I thank her all the time for the obedience that she had to listen to the Holy spirit in that moment.
Speaker 3:That is a really awesome story, especially considering what you're passionate about today, that it was like this moment of Jesus bringing unity through death right Out came life, like wow. That is truly incredible, and I think that even in our hearts there can be some post-Jesus hatred. You know that we have to work out, but just to see like he used that and it makes me even think about Paul and how, when he first came to the disciples, they were like who's this guy? Like no, but yeah, she was able to push through those feelings and invite you to church. And then I love to just how specific God can be to bring us to the exact place that we need to be when we need to be there. And so for you to see your, your brother's teacher that you're already familiar with, that's really cool. So I know that, as we said, we introduced you that you're a biblical justice educator, and so I wondered if you would tell us what is biblical justice and what led you to be passionate about this topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course. So we all understand the concept of justice and really it can be boiled down to ultimately, the righting of wrongs would be what justice is and, luckily enough for us, when we look at biblical justice, it lines up with what we would deem like worldly justice, probably about 90% of the way. It's really the end results that determine whether or not it's biblical or if it's worldly, and I would like to say that the world, when we look at justice, our end results. We could summarize it in two words when we look at the two of them, the world looks at revenge and Jesus looks at redemption. That's what we're looking for, and so the world would be very much an eye for an eye or make them pay, where Jesus would be looking at them. It's like how do we make them better? And when I say make them better, I mean both the person who caused the injustice and the person who's suffering from the injustice. So it would be looking at making sure the righting of wrongs for the wrong that was committed and then looking at why the problem was committed. Was it poverty? Are they suffering from poverty? How do we redeem that? How do we make sure that that gets corrected? Is it because of their upbringing and the culture that they were surrounded in? How do we come around that and make sure that we can redeem them back to a kingdom-minded lifestyle? And so those would be the two differences I find in biblical justice and worldly justice really comes down to revenge or redemption, and it's hard because we do want justice for the person who's suffering, but Jesus died for everyone, and so while we want to punish those who are committing wrongs, it's a tough pill to swallow, because Jesus technically already died for that, for that wrong, and paid the price for that wrong. So then how do we look at them through that lens?
Speaker 1:I would say I got passionate about this by accident. I really just kind of fell into it. I've always been a justice kind of girl. I mean, my undergrad is in criminal justice, and so that's really helpful because my husband's a cop, and so that that actually was very helpful. So, again, god knew what he was doing. But so I've always loved the idea of justice and love a true crime documentary novel, you name it. But when I started following Jesus, I worked for a church and they had a diversity initiative, and so I was like, oh and so I was on the diversity team and found out that I really loved it Helping churches get back to the original design God had called all of us to, which was to live in unity and to live in diverse ways made in their image. It says. Let's make them in our image, not my image, not the image it is ours. So even our innate makeup is diverse and creation is diverse, and so I love the idea of justice and redeeming God's creation back to its original design.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love how you put that with revenge and redemption. And even in the story that we're going to look at today, you see, the Pharisees have a heart of condemnation, and then Jesus has this heart of conviction, and I do believe that it's our goal to see as Jesus sees, because he sees the wise behind you know. He sees why even this woman who's caught in adultery, why she ended up where she was. He knew the whole story, and so we have to turn to Jesus and get his eyes of compassion and understand those things that you're talking about, and that's how we can truly help a person walk through change and repentance and, ultimately, its redemption.
Speaker 3:And throughout the gospels we see countless ways that Jesus challenges the ways that people think, and I think that he's still wanting to do that today. He's wanting to challenge the ways that we think because there's so many ways that culturally, even Christian culture, we might believe things that aren't necessarily the gospel. These stories, when we read them, we should read them with a heart of Jesus. Search me and know me, like in Psalm 139 at the end. Search me and know me, like, pick out any way in me that makes you sad and lead me in the way that's everlasting. And so I'm just curious how do you see the need for us to think differently and how can we help the next generation think differently also? And when I say think differently, I mean fully aligning ourselves with the gospel, with the truth of the biblical text and understanding. Okay, this is true, this is not true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think the biggest thing that we have to understand, even in the justice realm, I would say that in the world realm, I would say that in the world culture runs the definition of justice, it's running the conversation even of justice in our current climate, and I would like to say that if we're not careful, culture can infiltrate itself into the church. And when I say culture, I mean the world, the worldly ideas. And what we have to understand and recognize is that, when it comes to God and culture is, god is a creator and culture is a manipulator. And in order to manipulate something, something had to already exist, and so God created the world, god created man, and the enemy came in when the woman ate from the tree, and the enemy's biggest goal was how do I make it more about her and less about God? And that's ultimately what culture is doing, the world is doing. It is taking things and manipulating it to make you think that it's something new, but it's not like.
Speaker 1:Think about manifestation, right, I must manifest this for me, yeah, but the Bible says that there's power in the tongue, and life and death can both come from it. What you speak, you're commanding, right? That's not a new concept, but culture will be like oh, there's this new thing, you got to manifest it. No, that's praying and that's speaking, that's understanding that God gave you power because we're made again in his image and we create.
Speaker 1:With our words, we create atmospheres and cultures around us, and so that would be my biggest thing is we have to be so ingrained in the word of God to recognize when the enemy is coming in and trying to manipulate it, and when it's culture trying to say it's something new, but it's really the Bible. And if we're not careful and we don't know our word, the enemy is so slick. It could be just the changing of one word and we'll be like you know what that actually sounds about. Right, so we'll run with it. So my challenge to like think differently is actually like just read your Bible and it will innately transform you to think differently and to think like Jesus.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, absolutely. And that's what we want to do here at Brave Girls Gather. We want to get girls in the word, young women in the word, With our Bible studies. It's less about what we're putting down in the study and more about getting girls to open the Bible and read it and have meaningful discussion about it. And if we're just showing up for a sermon on Sunday or Wednesday night or whenever the college ministry is, and we're listening to the person share it from the stage, we need that, we need that edification. But if we're not having that personal time or that time where we're sitting around with others reading the word together and discussing it, we're going to have a harder time knowing the truth when the mistruth is put in front of us.
Speaker 2:What do you?
Speaker 3:think Delaney.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that there's this super cliche quote that I think hits home is we have to get the gospel, get God's word in our hearts, in our eyes, in our minds, so that it gets us Like, in order for us to change, in order for us to grasp what it means to live in freedom and joy and peace where there is injustice and where there is fear. In order for that change, in order to become like Jesus and live the way he did, we need to have the word in our lives. That's the only cure Part. That is like being around people who know the word better than you do and just hearing from them and hearing their take on it.
Speaker 2:There's seasons where, if you are not there yet or you're not, where you have so much time, like lean on the people who do to speak in your life. Or if you are in a season where you can open up your Bible for an hour every day, get in people's lives who may be struggling in that and just edify them as well. And, like iron sharpens iron, you will get the Bible bug and you will just be hungry for it all the time, and I think that is the best way to do. It is just to get around other people too and just share that, because there is community in the gospel and the truth that we read like it is best read together and that that goes for being around other people, but also like when you read your Bible, you are reading it with Jesus. He is right there in the pages right next to you, so like you're never reading it alone. It is meant to be read with your maker as well as with other people in your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember when I first came to follow Jesus and feeling like I knew nothing, like I don't know anything, and so I went and I bought myself a study Bible. I was like I'm going to read the Bible and I'm going to go down at the bottom and I'm going to read the study notes as I read the Bible, and that was so helpful. You got to start somewhere. If you're not in the word, or if you feel like I just don't know and so you're not going to go there because you feel like you don't know, it starts by going there and, like you said, delaney, going there with other people and giving yourself that grace.
Speaker 3:If it's not the season where you can be in the word, studying and reading the study notes and the verses at the same time, then do what you can Get with God in a way that you can, and surround yourself with others. And so one thing that we release with every series is called a Brave Conversation, and it includes Brave Conversation cards, and so we want to give you one of those questions today. We call it our get real moment, where we encourage you to, kaylee, share honestly and openly to the question, and so tell us about a time when you felt unseen, misunderstood or unloved by others, and how you navigated that.
Speaker 1:So I would say I think it was when I when I actually took my first church role, because it was at the same church that I found Jesus at.
Speaker 1:So in return, I am now the college age pastor to these students that I had gone to college with and I was a new person, I was a different person, but they still saw the old Kaylee, and so that was a really hard transition for some of them and me, I would say because they remembered the past and wouldn't really move forward with hey, I love Jesus now and I'm in it and I'm changed and I am different and I'm not the same girl that I used to be. I'm not hanging out with the same people that I used to hang out with. It was a hard moment for people to see this new girl and understand it, and even I would say that also happened with my family. When I first started following Jesus, when I really decided that I was going to take this seriously, I felt very misunderstood because they weren't believers. They didn't understand some of the things that I had to let go of in order to be able to walk with Jesus fully.
Speaker 1:That was a hard moment, and I lost friends over it and realized too that people that I thought were friends, we were surrounding ourselves with one theme and we weren't really friends actually. It just turns out that we like to have a good time, and so I would say that that's a big moment. Where I felt misunderstood was that very first time of following Jesus. This is what I know and this is what I'm used to, but this is what I know God has called me to and what he's calling me into, which means I have to shift, and not everybody's going to understand the shift, and not everyone's.
Speaker 3:Do you feel that, as you've continued to walk with Jesus, that you continue to experience versions of that you know like a discomfort, right, Like a holy discomfort of the more that I follow Jesus, the closer I get to Jesus? People aren't going to understand. You're going to have worldly people who don't understand and you're going to have religious people who don't understand and it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:I wanted to speak to the peer edification that we're also called to, and this whole ministry, brave Girls, is about building up the next generation, but a part of that is people ahead of you, people behind you in age, and also we're surrounded by people our age as well, and so I even find myself in someone who is near my age or we've been friends for a while.
Speaker 2:There's the friend hat and there's the let me be Jesus to you in this moment and love you, but also, like I want to make you more like Jesus as well.
Speaker 2:So it goes without saying, even for those who, like, are in a leadership role under a church, it's a friendship role and as Jesus followers like we are called to love and serve the other person in a way that honors God and like there there can be tension and there can be some, I guess, humility that's that's required on both ends.
Speaker 2:To take the truth from someone who's near your age it's easy to take truth from someone who is older than you. It is much harder to take truth from someone who is next to you or experiencing the same thing, but sometimes that is exactly who you need to hear from, whether it is like hey, you've messed up here or like, hey, let's talk about this. So I just want to speak to that, especially as a I don't know my role right now as a young mom, and so I feel like there are certain times where I can speak into some people's life and certain times where it's just awkward and it's requiring a lot of humility, you know, for me to listen and become more like Jesus through that. But I think God makes those moments very clear and he is with us.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and that humbling is growth. We grow through that humility. And you guys, when I look at my story, I didn't think I was going to answer this question, it was just coming to mind. I think I should put it out there. I've been hurt. I've been hurt bad, but I look back to my teen years when I wasn't giving Jesus everything and I was hurt by people. But I would say some of the deepest wounding that I have encountered has been by God's people. I think it hurt so bad because I wasn't expecting it, cause I thought, like we all Kumbaya, jesus, like this is the Jesus circle and we are all going to love and forgive and repent and amend and everyone's going to be happy all the time.
Speaker 1:And yeah, no, not the truth.
Speaker 3:And so that's why there's so many one another scriptures, right, delaney? Like we came out of a series last, at the end of the school year last year, on intersections and just loving one another. Like this is work and it takes Christ and that unity piece to wherever we are, where there's tension. It's Christ. Who have you called me to be Christ in this moment? How do you want to shape my soul in this moment? What do you want to teach me in this moment so that we can walk forward, hopefully unified, and if the other person or the other people where there's tension are seeking Christ and we're seeking Christ, we're all going to walk through this better. We're all on the same team, no matter how old we are, no matter the giftings inside of us. We're moving forward with kingdom purpose. So let's jump into this story. We're looking at again the woman who is caught in adultery, and it is John, chapter 8, verses 1 through 11. Delaney, would you read that for us?
Speaker 2:Yes, jesus returned to the mountain of olives, but early the next morning he was back again at the temple. A crowd soon gathered and he sat down and taught them. As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery and they put her in front of the crowd. Teacher. They said to Jesus this woman was caught in the act of adultery. The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say? They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. They kept demanding an answer. So he stood up again and said All right, let one who has never sinned throw the first stone. Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
Speaker 3:So I'm curious what stood out to you guys about the woman in the story.
Speaker 2:I want to glean from Psalm 139, 13 through 16, what we read earlier how precious are your thoughts about me, it says, and they're too much, I can't count them. And it also says every day of my life. When I hear that and I read this story back to back, it's like God knew this moment would happen. He knew that was going to be her choice. He knew her emotions through that and his thoughts towards her in her shame and guilt and just fear of the pain that was about to happen to her. His thoughts were so precious in that moment.
Speaker 2:It wasn't condemnation, it wasn't how could you do such a thing? It wasn't at all what she expected. It was just precious, precious thoughts of like you are beloved, you're my daughter and I hurt for you and because of Jesus, because he was there and because of what he was going to do, it was just all love towards her in that moment. So I don't know. It brings me to tears, especially after gleaning from Psalm 139, where we see a God who sees, knows and loves. We can clearly see that kind of God through Jesus revealed in this moment with this woman and I just it's the beautiful picture of grace and mercy and compassion, and I see also religious leaders who don't exemplify Jesus, who don't get it, and they are not the best representation of who God is. But praise God that Jesus was there in the middle of that so beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yes, the biblical justice piece is coming to mind for me in this. I see the woman as afraid. I'm just picturing her like okay, she's. I don't know where they drug her from. She might've been in the act, I don't know. It doesn't say that. But the religious leaders came and they drug her to the temple to put her in front of everybody and I'm wondering, like, what was her kind of like trigger response? Is she a fighter or a flighter, or a freezer? You know, was she like frozen in fear, or was she like angry and like?
Speaker 1:get your hands off of me, you know.
Speaker 3:I don't know, it doesn't say that, but we can assume that, at the very least, that she felt ashamed, that she felt caught, that she felt fear of wondering, like what is going to happen here? Am I about to die? What's going on?
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:She probably did feel guilty in that moment. But what I love about it is that in her guilt, jesus met her with grace and mercy. And how he did see. He loved her so much that he met her with grace and mercy. Technically, yeah, she was in the wrong. Because he's holy, he can't ignore the fact that she did sin. However, he loved her so much that he gave her grace and mercy instead. I just think that's super beautiful and redeeming of her. And even at the end where he says, like, neither do I condemn you, go and from now on, do not sin anymore. So he met her.
Speaker 1:Acknowledge that, hey, you're sinning, but I'm going to give you this grace and this mercy and I'm going to love you through it. But from this moment forward, you know better and I think we so often can. We have those moments where we're like, oh man, but God is as, hey, I see you, I'm acknowledging what you're doing here is wrong. I'm giving you that yucky feeling inside. We're like you know that I probably shouldn't be doing this or watching this or be here in this moment, and those are our triggers of go and sin no more.
Speaker 1:It's to repent and move forward, but trying to be transformed more like Jesus.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I like what you were sharing, kaylee. And then the Psalm 139 piece, delaney, is that biblical justice kind of getting back to that is, I believe that Jesus saw her whole story. He knew the whole story in that moment, like and that can make me teary that he knew, like why she was where she was, like he knew what happened before, that he knew all the pieces and so that's where the level of compassion for him was coming through and the love and the mercy, like everyone else, the Pharisees, they just wanted to. It says that they were doing this to test Jesus. They didn't care about her.
Speaker 1:It wasn't about her.
Speaker 3:No, they didn't see her. They're just like, oh, we're going to use you to get him, and they drag her out and they just have this spirit of condemnation, and then Jesus is on the other side. So what did you guys see when you're looking at the onlookers, when you're looking at the Pharisees, what do you think was going on there and their hearts and heads?
Speaker 2:Well, first I want to finish the story, because I realized I stopped it Verse eight, but verse nine. When the accusers heard this, they slipped away, one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman where are your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you? No, lord, she said. And Jesus said neither do I Go and sin no more.
Speaker 2:So I see, to answer your question, everyone leaves because everyone has sinned and we all fall short of God's glory. You know, I feel like I don't know. Even the most religious people are sinners as well, and like they need to be reminded of that, and they need to. We all need to be reminded that, like without Jesus, we have no power in us to even, you know, be holy or make right choices or look like Jesus and love like him. And so even part of God knowing us and loving us is letting us be aware of our sins, and not just aware of the sins of others.
Speaker 2:Because sometimes people sit around me and I'm like, wow, I'm so grateful I did not cause that harm to my family, or I'm so grateful that I did not have to deal with that consequence. But man, when God makes me aware of my own sin, I need to have that same reaction of man. I am so grateful that the Lord made me aware of that and that I have Jesus to repent. I feel like the one by one.
Speaker 2:I just see people leaving and leaving because they feel their own conviction of their sin, and that's a hard feeling to deal with. But it is also like where God works the most sometimes is through those convictions, through those oh, I'm a terrible person. Lord, thank you for your gospel. We need to get the whole story and God is a God of the whole story and the small moments, even those little tiny sins that we commit in our brains, in our minds, just the bitterness that wells up inside us. He sees even that and even that is enough for us to be made wrong in God's eyes and we need Jesus for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it says the oldest ones left first and that made me curious, like I don't know why the oldest or older one maybe there was wiser, like oh, I see what's going on here, like I'm out of here. I wondered also if, if he was writing possibly the names of those who had been with her, maybe they forgot about that part. Like we were like, oh, she's not with me today, she's with this guy today and he's like oh, I know you too, I know, and maybe that's what it was. I don't know, we don't know for sure. But yeah, I saw that too. Delaney, we see that in the final story that we're going to take a look at next week of there's a sin issue everywhere, and when we see our own sin, it allows us to be more compassionate, like we can get really judgmental when we lose sight of our own sin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I've always wondered what he wrote on the ground. Anytime that somebody is like, oh yeah, if you could go and witness any scene in the Bible, I answer that one a lot of times I'm like, I just am nosy, like what was, what was he doing over there? But I would assume that they felt checked in their own spirit in that moment. I mean they left.
Speaker 1:They were gung-ho, they were ready. They probably had rocks in their little satchels, they were ready to go. But after Jesus had started writing and prompting them, I would fight to say that they were just as transformed in that moment.
Speaker 1:And I think God can do that with us, even when we are judging others, when we're not viewing people like the image of God, like they were created to be, and not loving people well, and it's like I just wonder what they did with that, because I would hope and pray that they left and were transformed by that moment, and I think that's what's so beautiful about when you encounter Jesus, there's no excuse but to walk away different, and so my prayer is that we, as women of God, no matter what age you are, when people encounter you, that they encounter Jesus, and that there is no excuse but to see Jesus when you interact with people, so that people can leave transformed or at least curious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for us to be like Jesus in the story that's who we're called to be is like Jesus. He came to give us a model because he says I'm going to give you myself, like that's what you're getting. You're getting Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is going to be in you, it's going to be me in you and now you get to go do the things that I modeled for you in the gospel. So when we read the gospels, let's look at Jesus and go. That's who we are being called to. That's the character, the likeness that we're being called to. And even though I want have been changed in that moment, I wonder how many of them were changed in that moment but changed their mind the next day and went right back to the power and authority role that they had been given. Because we know that the Pharisees had a major role in the crucifixion of Jesus. We don't know if it was these Pharisees who were standing there that day, but we know the people that they were hanging with at least were major players in Jesus going to the cross. But let's look at Jesus. Let's finally just look at Jesus. Is there anything else here that you guys see when you look at Jesus. I'll just share that.
Speaker 3:I see his fierce and bold compassion for this woman. He defends her, and what's really standing out to me in this series is his defense of women over and over again, from the woman who had the issue of blood in episode one, he called her daughter and he dignified her in the middle of a crowd. He gave her the miracle in the midst of all these people. And then the woman at the well. He went completely against cultural norms of the day and he declares himself as the Messiah. She's the first one to hear him say I am he, I'm the Messiah, I'm the one.
Speaker 3:And now we're sitting here with this woman who the religious leaders, the Pharisees, they want to come and they want to stone her, and he's like, wait a second. And he defends her. Where they are is in the temple court and it's the court of the women, and the court of the women was the furthest that women could go in the temple. This is the same place where Jesus would later flip over tables. And so for Jesus to make such a bold statement in defense of this woman in this place, to these people, man it just it helps me to see his love, for he loves his men, he loves his sons, but he also really loves his daughters, and there was a way about him and these stories that we've been looking at where we see that that if you're a woman and you're walking upon the earth like, read these stories and if you're a woman leading girls, read these stories with them and take a look at how God sees women. Was there anything else that you guys want to accentuate about Jesus?
Speaker 1:in the story. I think just that he loves his creation. As flawed as they are, you never know, when he's going to encounter you.
Speaker 1:She was caught in the act and found Jesus In the midst of her sin. She encountered Jesus. He will meet you right where you're at, and what I love about it is, while he meets you there, he doesn't let you stay there because of his prompting of go and sin no more. Like I met you in the middle of your sin, like girl, you were caught, you got got and drugged to me. Like I'm going to encounter you and while you may not experience the dragging that this woman got, figuratively and literally, I can take from this story that Jesus is going to meet me in the middle of my crazy, in the middle of my brokenness, in the middle of my sinfulness. He's going to encounter me in that moment and it then is up to me what I choose to do with it. He's a gentleman, he's not going to force you to do anything, but he is going to prompt you to be different, and that's what I really love about it is he's going to find you in the middle of it all.
Speaker 1:It's up to us to make sure that we're paying attention in order to see him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I was just going to say that his kindness and mercy leads to repentance. And like when you truly behold the love god has for you and, yes, others but for you, when you experience the you're not going to condemn me for this, your heart for me is mercy really. Like when you are truly aware of that and you feel that love, like you just want to be his friend, you just want to worship him and be around him and you know that there's no other person who could love you that. Well, why would you spend your time with anyone else elsewhere? Like, why would you devote so much love to so many other things or these?
Speaker 2:You know, I just think of this woman who is probably searching for that love and that is what caused her to sit in this situation. Like I know in me when I've sinned the most, it's because I just lack a knowledge of God's love for me and I'm chasing after my own belovedness and I'm chasing after a desire to be desired. But when I fully grasp and see and behold Christ's love for me, my heart to sin is no more and I'm like, okay, god, whatever you say. Like I follow you no more. And I'm like okay, god, whatever you say, like I follow you. I love you. I'm grateful.
Speaker 3:He's the most lovable and loving person, and it's contagious and all you want to do is follow after him. Way to wrap that up, delaney, because that's why we're doing this series is so that we can see how God loves us and we can turn from rejection. We can turn from feeling misunderstood and feeling alone, and towards him and not towards our sin. Not run after sinfulness to medicate ourselves, but to run after Jesus, the one who sees us, knows us and loves us. And so thank you so much, Kaylee. This has been so awesome, such a gift to have you with us. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, yeah, of course, thank you. Thank you, guys, so much for joining us for this episode. We hope that it encouraged you.
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