Be the Brave Ones
Helping you live brave, build community, and pass on courageous faith to the girls around you, we are the Be the Brave Ones Podcast! We have meaningful conversations on the podcast that inspire you to live out your faith with courage and encourage you to have meaningful conversations of your own with the girls in your life! We are the official podcast of Brave Girls Gather. Pull up a seat and join us at our table of brave conversation! Learn more about Brave Girls Gather at www.bravegirlsgather.com
Be the Brave Ones
Seen, Known Loved: Mentorship & Costly Worship with Bria Gilmore
In this episode, Mandie and Lauren are joined by the inspiring Bria Gilmore, a Christian life coach and discipleship pastor.
We explore the powerful story of the woman with the alabaster jar from Luke 7:36-50. Bria brings unique insights, helping us grasp the importance of discipleship, mentorship, and the transformative experience of encountering Jesus.
She shares her personal journey, the mission behind her ministry, Equip Her Inc., and how living out Jesus’ teachings can profoundly impact the next generation.
The episode highlights the beauty of costly worship and challenges us to embrace a genuine relationship with Christ, free from religious performance.
Don’t miss this opportunity to be inspired and challenged!
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Hey everybody, it's Mandy and I'm back again with Lauren. Hey Lauren, hey Mandy. What's going on? It is like almost fall, like I know you love fall first of all, but I wanna know, like. What are you most looking forward to this year?
Speaker 2:I love a good bonfire, like just the coziness. I love cozy things. So cozy blankets, cozy books, cozy candles, cozy bonfires, and just this, this so recently the imagery of a fire has just been like on my heart and if you know the song refiner, it talks about being refined by the fire, and so just this, like I feel like that's just like ushering me into a season and I'm a little nervous about what it's going to bring, but just excited, excited about what this fall is going to bring.
Speaker 1:How about you? Well, I tell you that's going to change the way I see a bonfire or a fire pit the next time I'm sitting at it.
Speaker 1:I am looking forward to cooler weather because it is hot in Tampa and I was sitting outside yesterday and some clouds rolled in and I thought like some weather was going to happen, but it didn't. But you know, what I felt is this cool breeze, this kind of like cool breeze, and it was like the first cool breeze of like the hint that fall is coming. It's coming and I love that moment. I feel that moment every year and I didn't think it was going to be this soon this year, but I was sitting there, I go this is it, it's coming. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to cooler weather and just all things. Fall, I don't know. Fall makes me happy.
Speaker 1:So we have listeners, been going through the series. We're in our final episode today. I can't believe that this thing is coming to a close, but, man, we have taken so much from this and we hope that you have too. If you're just jumping in on this episode, hey, go back and listen to the other three. Go to our, our website, bravegirlsgatheredcom, print up the resources, have some meaningful conversations with the girls in your life, because this is a series that hits at the heart, something that we all encounter and struggle with, and that is feelings of either feeling rejected, condemned, judged alone. Jesus has an answer for it and he has scripture that he's had us looking at, that has revealed His heart, revealed the way that he sees us.
Speaker 1:And so today we are going to have another guest on, another incredible guest. Her name is Bria Gilmore and we look forward to talking to her. But first we want to take a little minute here and continue on in Psalm 139, because we've been using this as a lens to kind of jump into the rest of our scripture through. So we're going to finish out that Psalm today. Then our guest is going to join us and we're going to get to know all about her and we are going to round table the scripture. One of my favorite scriptures I feel like all the scriptures in this year one of my favorite scriptures is the woman with the alabaster jar. So that's going to be an incredible conversation. But, lauren, would you go ahead and read those verses from Psalm 139, verses 17 through 24?.
Speaker 2:Yes, it says how precious are your thoughts about me, o God. They cannot be numbered, I can't even count them. They outnumber the grains of sand. And when I wake up, you are still with me. O God, if only you would destroy the wicked. Get out of my life, you murderers. They blaspheme you, your enemies misuse your name. Oh Lord, shouldn't I hate those who hate you? Shouldn't I despise those who oppose you? Yes, I hate them with total hatred, for your enemies are my enemies. Search me, oh God, and know my heart. Test me and know my anxious thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends you and lead me along the path of everlasting life.
Speaker 1:Yes. So what stood out to you, Lauren, in those verses?
Speaker 2:The beginning and the end. No, but that God knows our thoughts, that he knows our hearts, that he knows our anxious thoughts, that even 24, point out anything in me that offends you, lead me along the path of everlasting life. And I think just that posture of being open like God, it's safe. It's safe for God to know me and for God to point out those things in me. He's a God who loves well and with grace, and so there's just like the safety in him correcting and guiding and leading and pointing out what offends, and it's a sweet invitation.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree, there's the safety there for him to do that. And when we understand the gospel, which is really going to be highlighted in today's story, we know that he's safe. We know that he's safe and when we look at these particular stories that we have been looking at with the series, we can see that Jesus is that, god, the Father. Jesus is absolutely safe to search our heart and there's a confidence that comes from knowing that we're right with God, because there's going to be so many moments where we're not right with somebody else right, we saw that in some of these stories where someone else had a problem with one of these women and so we're going to question, we're going to get all caught up in our head. You know girls listening, women listening you probably are thinking of a situation right now where you got caught up in your head, or maybe you're caught up in your head right now about am I okay? Was I wrong? And when you go to the Lord and you have him search your heart and he says you're good, you did everything that you needed to do, there's a confidence that you get to walk with and if he's like, oh, let's take a look at this little part of your heart right now, right here, not to condemn you, but to reveal to you where freedom truly lies and allow you to have the courage to do what you need, to do that you haven't done, or to fix what you didn't necessarily do right, and then you have a clear conscious. That's the road to freedom. That's how we walk with freedom. I did really love that imagery in the beginning as well, of him just knowing all of our thoughts, how vast his thoughts are of us, and it makes me think about when I'm down and out, when I'm feeling bad about myself or wondering who's thinking about me, who cares about me?
Speaker 1:There's a song on the worship playlist, the seen and loved playlist by Tasha Cobbs, and it's called in the room, and I highly recommend going to listen to this version of the song because at the end she tells a little story about her depression and she talks about going home from a concert and seeing like all of these miracles and things happen. And then she would come home and she would hide in her bed and pull the covers up over her head and she would wonder if anybody even cared, like if she was gone tomorrow. They would just replace her, and I think that, if we're honest, many of us have had those feelings like, would it even matter if I wasn't here, you know? Or we've struggled with wondering, do we matter? And so when we can go back to that Psalm 139 and go, you know what? I know who's thinking about me, I know whose thoughts are so many I couldn't even count it, like I can't count the sand on the seashore, I can't count God's thoughts of me. He would notice if I'm gone tomorrow. He wants me here, he has a purpose for me.
Speaker 1:And I kind of joked about skipping over that part in the middle, but I did sit with. That's a reminder to take the whole scripture right. We can't just like sit in on one verse and like I'm going to hate you with all the hatred in the world because David did Basically what David is conveying here is God. Whatever you hate, I hate, you, hate it, I hate it. If it's your enemy, it's my enemy. How you see people, I see people. He's basically saying God, I'm with you. And in the story that we're going to look at today, there's a clear contrast between those who are with God and those who are not with God, and so that's where we want to be. We want to be with God.
Speaker 1:So, with no further ado, we are going to welcome our guest on Again. Her name is Bria Gilmore. She is a Christian life coach who specializes in women's life and purpose coaching. She is also the founder of Equip Her Inc. A 501c3 nonprofit organization that's focused on life skills and character development for high school girls, and Bria serves on staff at her local church in Tampa, Florida, as a discipleship pastor. Cannot wait to hear what she has to bring. But also, she has a deep passion for making a difference in her community and helping others to intentionally walk in their God-given purpose, and we are so excited she's here. Welcome Bria. Hello, hi Mandy, hi Lauren, hey there. So we were just talking about being excited about fall. Are you a fall person and if so, what are you most looking forward to?
Speaker 3:I am very much a fall person. However, year after year, now that I've lived in Florida for 10 years now, year after year, I grieve fall because I grew up in Birmingham.
Speaker 3:Alabama where fall was. You knew when fall had begun. There was this cool you could pull out the boots and the sweaters football. It was fall and football where I'm from, and so there was just this shift and change in the season that I don't feel as much when I'm here, but those breaths of coolness coolness in the weather they are a great gift, but I often look forward to going home and visiting home in the fall time because the leaves are changing, they're actually falling off the trees. You get the reality of what that season is and looks like.
Speaker 1:In Tampa, we will straight up pull out the boots.
Speaker 3:It's 85 degrees, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, they're ready, they are ready, I'm so ready, but, my goodness, you're sweating by noon.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:No, though the girls like. So trendy right now with high school girls is the UGG slippers and the UGG boots. Like they will. They were wearing it in summer. My daughter wanted a pair of the UGG slippers. I'm like no, oh, it's too, it's too hot. I have a pair of the slippers. I'm like again, no, oh, it's too it's too hot.
Speaker 3:I have a pair of the slippers and I need them for like the two months that it gets very cold here and again. Very cold is relative, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now we've been looking at stories of women in the Bible who had, you know, complicated stories and eventually it led them to have these remarkable encounters with Jesus. So tell us a little bit about your story, bria. Help our listeners get to know you a little bit and how you came to know and follow and give your life to Jesus.
Speaker 3:I grew up in a church home. My grandfather was a local pastor in the city that I grew up in, and so church was foundation for me In my growing up. There are scriptures that I can still say, and I learned them when I was three and four years old. There's a lot to my foundation and upbringing that was built on very strong Christian values very strong Christian values. But I think, just like with anybody else, there is this moment in your life where it has to transition from it being your family's beliefs where it goes from being your family's faith, your mom's faith, your granddad's faith, to your own, and that happened for me.
Speaker 3:I was actually in sixth grade and my parents were going through a divorce and it was pretty traumatizing for any middle school girl. Uprooted, it was a lot, but still in the rhythm of going to church. We had actually started going to church with my mom. She had found another church and we were bitter about that too. So it was so funny when I think about how God met me there at a place I was so bitter about being at in this youth group. I was like they are not my friends. I miss my friends from our church and I was quite upset. I have no idea to this day what the message was even about, but what I know is that the Spirit of God met me there and it was like when they gave the invitation at the end.
Speaker 3:I could not stop crying. I just knew in my heart I was asking the Lord truly about my life and about meeting me there. Now I have language and words for all that was happening, but imagine the chaos of a sixth grade girl and that's what was happening, even in this amazingly spiritual encounter. But I just had no idea what was happening, even in this amazingly spiritual encounter. But I just had no idea what was happening. But now I can look back and go. That was the Lord inviting me into this life, this walk with him. And so I did, sobbing with tears. But I knew I was hungry and on fire and all I wanted to do was read my Bible. I already had a teen study Bible that had been gifted to us from my grandfather. I had the resources and the tools that were in my hand at the moment and I went all in.
Speaker 3:So I wanted to read it all, I wanted to know it all, I wanted to follow the Lord, I wanted to love Him with everything, and so that was the journey for me. But we know life isn't just that one moment. There are the ups and downs. I think the journey for me, and the goodness and kindness of the Lord along my journey, has been Him, time and time again, reminding me that I don't have to work so hard, I don't have to prove myself that he loves me, he sees me, and so a lot of my behaviors were often driven especially within my relationship with God. I don't want to make God mad, I want to do everything he says I should do.
Speaker 3:And it became this very rule driven obey this way, do these things, and if you don't measure up, you're in trouble. You're going to get in trouble. And I kind of lived this life in bondage. Yet it was all well-meaning and well-intended, and so I think that has been the beauty of the journey with Jesus to go from, yet again, this bondage to freedom, which he was constantly offering and extending to people. Hey, be set free from this life and way of living that you have now and walk in this freedom. Take my yoke, take this burden I'm carrying because it's much lighter, it's much easier. So that has been the crazy story that I find myself time and time again having to live through, and he's so kind to just invite me right back again to the green pastures and laying down beside streams of water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope that you giving language to what you experienced as a sixth grader, gives language to someone today. Yes, for them to understand that, like, if they've had that experience and like, was that you God? They can look at that and go, oh yeah, that was God, that was an encounter with him, it was an experience, and it really is this encounter that you have that sets you in a new direction. That encounter that you have that sets you in a new direction. If you can see where there was a shift, where you experienced God, and then there was a shift on the inside of you where you started to want to do things that you hadn't been wanting to do anymore, like read your Bible. You can pretty much say that that was an encounter with the living God, Like you met him in that space.
Speaker 1:And we're going to read today the story of this woman with the alabaster jar. And the thing is that the onlookers in the story they didn't get it, they didn't understand it and they thought it was about behavior modification. You know, like, oh, don't touch her, she's a sinner, you know, or don't let her touch you. And it's so surprising to me how many people, and even young people, still believe that today. Yes, that it's about how they behave behavior.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's why they're scared to let Jesus search. God, search their heart. Because they're like oh, you're going to find some stuff that we don't want to see in there.
Speaker 3:Yes, and we don't get the gospel. It's not supposed to be there and yes, absolutely, it just breeds this need to hide. I mean, gosh, you go back to the garden and what the first mistake? And they hide they up. And yes, it is, it is the nature, it is our nature to want to go. Wait, I am not okay, I cannot go before you Lord, when actually he's saying no, please come, please come, yes.
Speaker 1:I love that part of your story too, where it was in this place, where you're experiencing this brokenness, where Jesus shows up. And you know, we here in Tampa we spend time in a group home, a foster care group home, once a month. When Lauren was here in Tampa, she was a big part of that, and we attempt to help these girls reframe their reality, reframe what's happened where they are, because it's very often is your lowest place can actually be a place of shifting, a place of change, a place of rescue that you don't even recognize that you're in, and so how we see where we are matters. What do you think, lauren, from your time there in the group home? What do you think?
Speaker 2:Lauren from your time there in the group home. Yeah, and I love the language, bria, that you use this contrast between bondage and freedom and when we know Jesus, that bondage does go away and we get to experience that freedom, giving language to that, helping them understand kind of what they're walking through and how to see the goodness of God and, I think, consistency and showing up for someone, especially showing up for someone younger, and thinking back to the women who were in my life who were consistent, you start to build that relationship, it starts to be safer and you start to see the workings of freedom through Jesus in that woman.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. Talk to us about Equip Her Bria and that ministry that you started. What led you to do that? Since we're talking about girls and older women pouring into younger, talk to us about that, yes.
Speaker 3:So it was me. I remember when I first moved to Tampa, I was young, 20s and still just had this fire. My college experience was incredible. The Lord just grew me even more during that time and so when I was kind of in transitioning from college girl to career girl, that hunger and longing was very still present. And there were young girls at our church we were a smaller church and there were teenage girls that were there and I saw the need for them to have someone.
Speaker 3:I would consistently look back and say the moments that marked me, probably from that very traumatic time and season going into middle school and all the way through high school. There were women who were just outside of home, who spoke truth, who invested time, and there was a dance coach. It was a modeling and etiquette teacher and we were just showing up for these classes and very involved at school, not knowing and realizing how they were pouring in, and they would invite us to church and we would go and just be immersed all the time in the things of the Lord. And I just thought, well, if there are people who did this for me, I should be doing this for somebody. And okay, here are these girls and I remember right around that time I was scrolling I'm guessing it had to be on Facebook at that point and I just saw somebody post be who you needed when you were younger and that just ignited it all the more. I had already been kind of thinking about it, but I was like that's it, that's it. And so we sat around. I just started a girl's Bible study, teen girl's Bible study. We would meet once a week during the semester and we just started connecting. We just started talking and we would grow together.
Speaker 3:But it was all the conversations that would happen afterwards that were so meaningful. And I remember one of the girls saying to me after, cause she was just starting, I think, maybe learn to drive or so. And she was like yeah, so I really don't know how to pump gas. And then another girl was like yeah, I really don't either. And we started talking about like budgeting and finances and I was like, well, have you ever done a budget before? I was like, no, I've never done that. And I started to hear like, okay, there's something here as well. There's the spiritual nurturing that has to happen, but there is also just the everyday life skills that girls need. And so from there, equip Her was born, and that was our purpose, that was our mission to equip high school girls, young girls, with life skills and character development as they're living this journey.
Speaker 3:And part of that was with the added relationship of mentorship, because we know, like our goal was not to bring women as a matter of fact, our tagline is journeying together, because the reality is we're all on a continuing journey, but hey, in this season, in this moment, let's journey together, let's be on this journey, let's be learning together. And so, yes, that is how it happened. I knew I could not one-on-one mentor every single one of those girls, so I said, well, hey, I know there are other women who are like me that want to do this, so let me invite them into this as well. And I'm telling you from there, it just became just the sweetest gift. Our first girls. They were ninth grade, so about 14, if you're not in the US like about 14, they started and now they are, you know, 21, 22, getting ready to graduate college. And I'm like, wow, I got to be part of their story. And so it's just been an incredible journey and something, as I said, it just started with recognizing a need and going hey, I'm here.
Speaker 1:I love the simplicity of be the person who you needed. Like if you're like I don't know how to do this, like what do I do?
Speaker 3:there's so many life changes that are happening in this kind of one compact season of life and just to know you have somebody standing with you that you can just text and call and sit down with and just get their advice on it and know that it's going to be wise counsel and guided mentorship and even if it's not perfect advice, it's just saying, hey, I don't know exactly how you should go about this, but let me tell you about a time where this happened in my life and it means everything. They are not looking really for you to have all the answers, they're just looking for you to be present with them right, journey along them and show that you don't have it together, so that way there's no pressure when they're at your age like 22, 25 and so on to feel like they have to be.
Speaker 3:But you know so that I think the greatest gift we can give young girls is the reality and the authenticity of we don't have it together every day, every season from here on out, is learning, and so if we can expose that to them, I think it releases them from so much pressure of feeling like they need to know it and have it together at that season, but also when they get to where we are it and have it together at that season, but also when they get to where we are. Yeah, what they need is Jesus, like that's what they need.
Speaker 1:You need Jesus. And I love the name. Like there's every once in a while I hear the name of a ministry, I'd be like I love that name. I love that name Equip Her because it says exactly what you do Equip Her, equip Her. You see that girl Equip.
Speaker 3:Her equipper, and so now you're a discipleship pastor at a local church at.
Speaker 1:Bay Chapel here in Tampa. Talk to us about that, because discipleship is such a huge part of what we believe needs to happen at Brave Girls Gather. It's what Jesus told us to do. So talk to us about discipleship, why you think it is so important, especially when it comes to the next generation. Oh, my goodness, yes.
Speaker 3:Gosh. So I mean the ministry journey in general has been one that I mean, gosh. I could spend hours and hours talking about that. But I am now in this discipleship pastor role and you know we oftentimes kind of make the concept and the idea so complex, we overcomplicate things sometimes.
Speaker 3:But a disciple is simply a student. It is a student who was committed to following their rabbi, like in the days of Jesus. You know they would call him teacher, rabbi. That was a very honoring role and position, and to be a disciple or apprentice of a teacher or a rabbi, it was to practice their way of living, their way of life. How did they do things?
Speaker 3:And so Jesus comes on the scene. There are rabbis galore, by the way, and it's a very particular process to become a disciple of a rabbi. And Jesus comes on the scene and does this counter-cultural thing and just goes hey, you come, follow me, you come, follow me, whereas then, historically, it's the one who desires to follow who goes out and approaches, in our terms or in our world today, goes out to interview, to network and get your seat, fight for your seat at the table or at this rabbi's feet, and Jesus goes nah, I'm going to do this different and he goes out pulling people. Most random having I mean gosh. In no other context would they probably ever all be in the same rooms, seated at the same table.
Speaker 3:And they make this decision to be disciples, to follow his ways, to practice his ways, and so that is that's what a disciple is, and I think that that's the continued invitation of what being a disciple is today, and it is staying a student, remaining a follower, a learner of the ways of Jesus. Just think about it. It's like school all the time. We know a five-year-old going to school is one thing versus an 18-year-old going to school, yet they're all still learners. Right, you can continue on post-secondary education.
Speaker 3:I've met people that are like I'm a lifelong learner, I just love learning. I love learning, and I think that posture is really what discipleship is to say I'm remaining to this learning and I'm going to do it alongside more people. I'm going to journey together. Right, we're going to do this thing together. I think oftentimes we put so much effort and energy into trying so hard to do the teaching, to do the work, that actually, I think the best posture we can have when we are in this position of following Jesus is to say, hey, I'm here as a student, I've not arrived, and whether I've been following Jesus for 25 years or just for two days, for 25 years or just for two days, we're all learners here and we're all on this journey of practicing the ways of Jesus together and doing this together, learning what does loving my enemy look like? That's not a one week class and suddenly I'm an expert on loving my enemy.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no. I got to see you do it. I got to see how you loved your enemy, absolutely, and enemies change year to year.
Speaker 3:Maybe one enemy was a little bit easy to love, but then five years down the road, you encounter like, oh okay, we're learning, I'm practicing this again. I've not arrived, I thought I could love my enemies, but this one, you know, and again just allowing it over and over. And so this journey in discipleship, pastoring, is really kind of laying that foundation. I mean, we have to have structure, obviously, to the way we do things, and so it's kind of trying to put structure to something that really Jesus modeled quite fluidly, like it was. You know, there were some times he was empowering them hey, go two by two and go do this. And then there were some times where he said, hey, come, let's go, let's go away and rest for a while. And then there are other times where he's saying, hey, listen to me, I'm going to teach today. It's such a fluid thing.
Speaker 1:He didn't have like a calendar. We'll all get together on Wednesday. We'll read our Bible, we'll go serve on that day.
Speaker 3:We're going to the synagogue today, but today we're actually gonna stir things up a bit and do some work on the Sabbath. It's just funny. It's so funny, like just to watch it happen, and I think all of it was quite intentional. And so I think, for the next generation, I think one cause you know, we talked about this before I think the understanding of what a disciple is and living a life as a follower of Jesus has been equated to how you behave, how you perform.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I attended this number, like you said. Right, I attended this many Bible studies, I did these things, I was nice to these three people, and the life is just drained from what was intended to literally be a life-giving thing. Jesus said I came that you might have life and have life to the full. I'm the bread of life, I'm the way, the truth and the life Like life was this thing he was always proclaiming about himself.
Speaker 3:That's what he talked about himself the most, more than being loved, more than being the savior which obviously those are a hundred percent true, but it was which obviously those are 100% true. But it was something about this gift of life where he was constantly saying hey, you've been weighed down and burdened by this legalistic, heavy rule-driven society in an attempt to love me, in an attempt to know me and to please me. But I came that you actually might know a way that you do those things without your own striving involved and for the next generation to really live in this beautifully open to the things, to the things of Jesus, I think they have to know that that beginning that has to be ripped off. That lie of how you behave and I mean I don't know how that even lands for you all. Like in your journey with Jesus, were there seasons where, even in your following Jesus, where you felt like I've got to do these things, I've got to get it right. Does that even resonate for you all?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as you're describing that bondage that we talked about in the beginning, and this culture tells us we need to do it one way, and Jesus shows us that we need to think differently, that we need to love differently, that we need to be different, and so, and that's you know, throughout the gospels we see all of these examples and images of thinking differently, and even in this story that we're going to read here in a few minutes, like it is so different than what even the Pharisees expected him to do. So how do you see that need of like thinking different for our next generation? How do we help our next generation think differently?
Speaker 3:Yes, I think we live it. We have to live it.
Speaker 3:You know, there is so much reality to the same, more is caught than taught.
Speaker 3:I mean, if we walk free, then they will see how you walk free. I think that's a part of it, of course, but then also being able to bring freedom to people, because sometimes it's just like me as a sixth grader. It was with the greatest intentions of wanting to please the Lord and wanting to obey the Lord, but somewhere along the way I just got so focused, I was laser focused in on how good I was and how well I behaved, and that's right. Of course, mentorship that's why, journeying along with people, peers, but those who are a few seasons ahead of you which is why I'm so passionate about mentorship it's just important to have those voices as well, to be wisdom, to be guidance, while we also actively practice it and live it for ourselves, because in some way or another it kind of subtly sneaks in to one way, one place and we let the Lord constantly search us, because if we are doing that and practicing that, to say, all right, I'm remembering today, I am but human, I am but human, and so yeah, I think that's key.
Speaker 2:I think there are times where the women in our lives and as women who are investing in the next generation, to remember that sometimes like they want to please us. Yes, and the goal is not to please me and my goal is not to please the woman I'm meeting with, but would it be a safe environment where we can walk with Jesus together, where we can give feedback to each other, that we can work together? It's about me walking with Jesus and then walking with me and us doing it together and saying when we're wrong and starting over and there's grace.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely Gosh, it was a huge part of my story was like sliming the church ladder. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like if I make enough people see that I'm such a good Christian, then they'll think I'm important too. Like it was whack, but God was so faithful to tear that down through a lot of pain. Like he was so faithful to say that is not who I have called you to be. That's the opposite. And, bria, something that you said when you were talking about it was just like oh my gosh, lauren, I don't, I don't know if you picked up on this, but when you said Jesus called them, he, he picked them, and the culture of the day was they pick him. Like we sometimes struggle, right, we sometimes like I'm important, like everyone come follow me or they're important, I'm going to go follow them. You know what I mean. But Jesus was like you come you come here.
Speaker 1:And we talk about at brave girls gather, like does the girl ask the woman, does the woman ask the girl? Like both work right. But women, lauren, I'm hearing like we have to take responsibility. We have to say God, who are you emphasizing in my life? Let me pursue. And this generation is resistant. They want you to invest in them, see them, pour into them. But sometimes they get some pushback. We have to be unoffended, we have to be like, oh God's, put you in my heart. So I'm going to pray for you and I'm going to keep asking. And sometimes they just want to know you're real, that you're not just trying to control them or change them, but you actually care.
Speaker 3:So you show up you know I love that. Let me let Jesus choose. Actually, if he went about walking around and he chose, he can still choose here through us as leaders, as women, and go, okay, he's. He's just placed this one girl on my heart who I never would have approached otherwise, and quite you know she's quite the troublemaker, you know it will be work. But he's saying pick her. And I'm guessing that's Simon the Zealot too. You know, in that day it's probably difficult, peter right, so headstrong sometimes. But gosh, he's still doing the choosing and we get to be the ones say all right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you both model this so well in showing up, showing up when they're not saying yes, when they're not. You know if the girl, if you're hanging out with a girl and she doesn't say yes to Jesus on day one, that doesn't mean you stop showing up, you keep praying, you keep showing up, you keep being yourself. And Bria, as you're talking about, like we're going to learn how to fill gas, like it's in those moments, I think, that girls see our character, the girls get to know us. We build those relationships you know, or like, how do we get her here?
Speaker 3:yes, about us objective yes, yes we are like.
Speaker 2:Our position is to be faithful and to pray and to do the work on our knees when the girl's not sitting and in front of us, but but it's a patient work.
Speaker 1:yeah, it requires patience and perseverance and the holy spirit to know keep going, going with this girl. Okay, don't give up on her, keep going. So let's let's jump into the scripture. It's Luke 7, 36 through 50. This story appears in other gospels, but this is the one that we chose to focus in on for this series. Not that we can't reference the others and highly recommend, if you're listening, to read all three because you get different perspectives. But, lauren, would you go ahead and read that for?
Speaker 2:us. Yeah, one of the Pharisees asked Jesus to have dinner with him. So Jesus went to his house and sat down to eat when a certain immoral woman from the city heard he was eating there. She brought a beautiful alabaster jar filled with expensive perfume. Then she knelt behind him at his feet, weeping. Her tears fell on his feet and she wiped them off with her hair. Then she kept kissing his feet and putting perfume on them.
Speaker 2:When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself If this man were a prophet he would know what kind of woman is touching him. She is a sinner. Then Jesus answered his thoughts. Simon, he said to the Pharisee, I have something to say to you. Go ahead, teacher. Simon replied. Then Jesus told him the story.
Speaker 2:A man loaned money to two people 500 pieces of silver to one and 50 pieces to the other but neither of them could repay him. So he kindly forgave them both, canceling their debts. Who, do you suppose, loved him more after that? Simon answered I suppose the one for whom he canceled the larger debt. That's right, jesus said. Then he turned to the woman and said to Simon look at this woman kneeling here.
Speaker 2:When I entered your home you didn't offer me water to wash the dust from my feet, but she has washed them with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You didn't greet me with a kiss, but from the time I first came in she has not stopped kissing my feet. You neglected the courtesy of olive oil to anoint my head, but she has anointed my feet with rare perfume. I tell you, her sins and they are many have been forgiven, so she has shown me much love. But a person who is forgiven little shows only a little love. Then Jesus said to the women your sins are forgiven. The men at the table said among themselves who is this man that he goes around forgiving sins? And Jesus said to the woman your faith has saved you. Go in peace.
Speaker 1:So we've been looking at three different things as we examine these stories in scripture, and that is, we look at the woman, we look at the onlookers and we look at Jesus, and so I'm wondering what stood out to you guys about the woman in the story.
Speaker 3:The first thing is she has no name. She's only identified by her sin, her mistakes, and it's so quickly to move by that Normally we say the woman with the alabaster jar, but she's not even known as that. She's just known as the woman in town who was sinful and lived a sinful life. And I think that's a hard place to live in when you are known and marked by your past. Because here she is making a very, very radical, bold step to come into this home. I mean, she would know whose home she's entering, she would know the judgment that would probably come to her and she would do it anyway, knowing, hey, jesus is here and I've heard this thing, I've heard these things about him. Somehow, some way, she knows that Jesus is here and I've heard this thing, I've heard these things about him. Somehow, some way, she knows that Jesus is coming and she wants to be there. And she shows up so completely vulnerable, so completely open, I mean emotional expressive.
Speaker 3:It's more than just yikes, this girl, if he knew she's a sinner, but it's also man. Can she pull it together the judgments? Will you pull it together, like, can you? We're, we brought him here for a reason and you're interrupting, right Thinking, and maybe you are listening and you think you know I, my presence is just an interruption or my presence, you know people just tell me, hey, calm down, like you're doing too much. But if it's a genuine and real reaction to the presence of Jesus, however it is, you get to him. I mean, gosh, come freely in that, even if it's ugly, even if it's unacceptable, even if it's even frowned upon, and there's just something about that. And even those marked by a past mistake or just a life that you've lived before, just the beauty of Jesus, knowing, hey, she's coming here, I'm going to say yes to this invitation because I know who's coming later. So, yeah, those were two keys for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it struck me that she like just thinking of her giving her all she gave, her tears, she took, and in her culture, taking down her hair was a crown of one thing, but she didn't care. She gave that to Jesus. She she wiped, and just the way that she approached him with everything she had, with her tears, with her perfume, with her hair and the perfume that she had. I've read a couple different places. One was like you know, it's about a year's worth of wage.
Speaker 2:The other one's like it was probably all she had had and so just to think about this woman gave literally all she had physically, emotionally, financially. There's a song in the playlist for this series called costly and as I was reading this it just like that song just kept coming up and some of the lyrics say some say it's too expensive, I say it's not enough. How could I give too much? And personally I'm challenged by her reaction because I'm like I need to give more. You know I'm like Lord, what are you calling me to give? And just, it's beautiful. It's beautiful Her reaction to who Jesus is. She knows, like you can just tell she knows how good he is and she's willing to give everything for this man.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, that's what stood out to me, to everything that you guys have shared, particularly her courage to walk into that room and not care and say I know who Jesus is and he's worthy, he's worthy of my worship, and she brings the most costly things she could find and it challenges me, it convicts me and it challenges me to have that kind of courage and then to also make costly sacrifices and side of who Jesus is. And the onlookers didn't get it. She got it Like she got it, you know, and I want to be one of the ones who gets it. And the Pharisees didn't get it. And in other stories disciples are in the room like nobody got it except Jesus and this woman, and that's just such like a beautiful picture, you know, and I want that with Jesus. I want to get it when nobody else is getting it. I want to get it. But also, if you're going to be one of the only ones who gets it, prepare for the side eyes, like prepare for the whispers.
Speaker 2:You got to.
Speaker 1:And so do you want that? Because that's that's going to come with it, and sometimes we get that. We're surprised that we got that, but if we are truly following Jesus, if that happened then is it not happening now? I mean, should we think that if it's happening then and it was recorded in scripture for us to see, that, then maybe Jesus wants us to know that when we experience things like that, it doesn't mean there's something wrong. It can actually mean it's very right. It's how it's supposed to be. So what did you guys see when you looked at the onlookers in the story, which is really, I think, just the Pharisee in this particular passage?
Speaker 3:I actually was quite surprised we were talking about this discipleship but his response? Because Jesus knows, and he said to himself if only he knew that this woman was a sinner. And then Jesus approaches him saying let me tell you something, let me ask you something, let me ask you something. And his response, simon's response to Jesus, is tell me, teacher. Or he refers him as teacher, which says okay, there's something here, there's something about their connection and relationship that has at least developed to this place where he's maybe still skeptical, maybe still wondering about this whole Jesus thing, but has accepted him to a place where he's like okay, I will receive from, I honor you enough to call you teacher, I respect you enough to call you teacher.
Speaker 3:And as Jesus does so beautifully, he tells a story. The stories are, they just teach the lessons so much clearer than anything else. If Jesus could have just said to him you have no idea, he could have lectured him, he could have approached it, but he just tells a story because he brings him into this to go. No, seriously, think about this, look at what has happened. If you think about the debt that you can look on her life and know she owes, you can look on her life and know what a sinner she is, then how much more, how much more should like this. This is good. Our response, our response is beautiful and I need you to see that. And so jesus, so kindly, even in his, you know ignorance, even in the judgment, even in that you know it's muscle memory to just say oh, there's a sinner, you don't touch me, don't associate with me, don't be around me. I would never let her touch me. Instead of actually seeing the story, the human being, the person that's there going, actually there's a reason, there's a reason she should be doing this.
Speaker 3:I find myself as the onlooker in my practice with engaging with the scriptures. I am here to be honest and again, at praying that prayer of search me, I have found myself to be timing, I have found myself to be judgmental in ways, and even because this is he thought to himself, and even just subtle, like the internal thoughts, maybe you to himself, and even just subtle like the internal thoughts. Maybe you didn't say it out loud, but maybe there's just something there and I've been convicted about that too, to go. You know, am I actually thinking about? Like it's a reason this person is sobbing, it's a reason that this person is like you know, clean it up.
Speaker 3:I want to say like all right, that's enough, but like no, truly. And have I thought to myself and weighed fully, like, is there more, as you were saying before? Is there something more costly for me to give it? Can I give up my need to appear like I have it all together because I just need to stop today? You know, to appear like I have it all together because I just need to stop today, you know. So, yeah, that onlooker resonates because I think sometimes I can find myself in that place of the story too yeah, what about you, lauren?
Speaker 2:I think I see this progression in his response of softening, like. First he's thinking, oh, she's a sinner. Then he's like like you were talking about bria, like all right, teacher, you know, go ahead tell me, and then you see the like.
Speaker 3:I suppose like you're ready to get it like I suppose you're right.
Speaker 2:And then toward the end he's like man, like who is this jesus? And starting to see a deeper picture of who jesus?
Speaker 1:I was judging Simon. You're over here, bria, going. He called him teacher and I'm like Simon, get out of here. I'm done with you, yep.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right. He said teach me teacher. I love when Jesus said Simon, I have something to say to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's like oh okay, what.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But in the other versions of the story, the disciples, even Judas, who betrayed Jesus for money. They were concerned about the expense.
Speaker 2:Like they were calling it wasteful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that what she was doing was wasteful. So again, like these, the ways that we see things, um, jesus wants to show us different, and so that Psalm 139, we keep saying that search me, search me, god, show me, teach me, teacher, teach me, show me where the ways of the world have confused what you intended for me to know, because the religious leaders of Jesus's day thought that they were doing it right, and so there might be things. Religion taught us that Jesus is like nope, not that, yes, let me teach you.
Speaker 1:And that's why we need the scripture and we don't need to just read it like we heard the pastor teach it, but we need to read it and say, jesus, teach me through this through the scripture, yes, and so I see Jesus in the story as once again pointing out what's not of him and what is of him, and I see the beauty of him honoring the women and these stories. It's so precious and tender and a message for us today of how Jesus feels about us as women, and he's standing up for her and he's defending her, and he's doing it with such eloquence and beauty. It's called Seen, known, loved. You can get it on our website. We'll link it in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Delaney wrote this portion and she talks about the amount. The parable that Jesus teaches. He says that it was 500 denarii that was owed and that was basically known in that time as an amount that could not be repaid. And so what's so beautiful here is in the parable. Jesus is saying she knows that what she's been given she couldn't pay for. She knows that she cannot pay her debt. She realizes that and that's what she's doing here. She's honoring me because she knows what I gave her was something she could not do on her own, and that is a message for us, you guys that listeners, our debt cannot be paid on our own. There's no amount of right doing, good doing. I'm going to do this. That's going to make us right with Jesus. It is 100%. The debt that Jesus paid on the cross is the only thing that does it. It is our only ticket in heaven. It's the only way for life, here in the now is to recognize that he paid a debt we couldn't pay.
Speaker 1:All throughout the Old Testament it said a perfect sacrifice had to be given for the covering of sins. Ain't not one of us perfect? We can't pay for our sin. Someone had to die for our sin, a perfect, spotless lamb. Jesus took care of it. He washed away our shame. He took away that woman's shame, all the shame she was living with. He took it. He took the sin. He took the shame and she knew it and she worshiped him. So let our response be worship, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not that he doesn't see the sin, like he isn't just ignorant to the sin, he that he doesn't see the sin, like he isn't just ignorant to the sin, he sees it. He says I tell you her sins and they are many, he calls it out and he knows that he died for that sin. It's not a we're going to just pretend that never happened. It's a. I see that and I know it and I love you, knowing that you are a sinner. I think sometimes that can be a roadblock for us is we don't recognize our own sin. We are sinners. We need to see our sin. We need to grieve our sin. Jesus sees our sin, but he died for that sin and so I think we need to see it, but we need to give it to Jesus and let him step in that gap for us.
Speaker 3:Right, right. And I think what's so interesting is that that truth that you're both saying is easily received and understood by the one who knows that they have a debt that they cannot pay. But those who are like, well, you know it's not intentional, it might not even be conscious, but when you find that you've made good choices, you've been a great Christian all your life or you grew up in church all your life, it can be easy to miss how great a debt that we owe ourselves, and so that it makes receiving the simplicity of the great gift Jesus extends to her, it makes it more difficult to actually receive, which was obviously the story that we would learn over and over again about the Pharisees. Because they had figured it out, they knew what the law was, and so, as long as they knew what the law was, there was no need, there was no openness to actually the salvation, this gift of a paid debt.
Speaker 1:Man, this conversation makes me love Jesus even more. I've had like tears behind my eyes the whole time, just welling up at the glory and the majesty of Jesus. Thank you, guys, so much for being here today. Bria, we are so grateful that you were able to join us and all that you brought to the table today. I can't wait for our listeners to get to listen to this and enjoy this conversation too.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:And also Bria. Is there a way that, before we go, is there a way that our listeners can connect with you?
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, you can find me well regular. Just Google Bria Gilmore, and actually my name just changed. I'm a newlywed, so I am still in this. Yes, I'm fragile now, but out in the in the you know WWW, I am Bria Gilmore, so briagilmorecom. On Instagram, I am Bria Gilmore. Yeah, those are the best ways to connect with me and you'll see all that's happening in my life right now and soon. Eventually I'll get to changing all this stuff over.
Speaker 1:Awesome. All right, bria. Thank you so much.